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Wow, OK, so this is messed up, early in development, and possibly light on suficent information....
As of this most recent weekend, it seems that it is possible that there is no longer any busking allowed in the City of Seattle.
My drummer apparently received one of the Seattle "no sitting/laying-down" tickets (more of a panhandler law) this past Friday because he was playing his drum set ... no different or different location that he has for, oh, only the past year. He was also apparently told, just the same as I and other buskers got in/direct wind of on Saturday that in Seattle if you are a street performer you are legally in voilation because you are obstructing the public's use of the sidewalk (which I thought included us???). Apparently, and/or according to the Dept of Transportation & their pamphlet, you are obstructing the sidewalk if you are standing in one place or set anything down on the sidewalk.
So perhaps this means....
...if you are standing, waiting for a bus, you are in violation -- oh, and that heavy backpack or uncomfortable briefcase, yeah, don't set that down, thats in violation -- probably best to form up a walking circle with the other folks waiting for the bus
...if you see an old school chum on the street, go nutz, say hi, stand and chat, maybe a friendly hug, unless you 2 keep walking, you're in violation (maybe if you continue to jump up & down the whole time in excitement, you're OK?)
...if you're a "street performer" you may play, you may received "donations" (not tips, oh no no no), but you cannot put down your case/hat/jar/etc, you must keep moving, and if you are to sell, er, I mean make available in trade for "donation" merchandise such as CDs, I guess they too have to be hanging off of your body
...tourists and other photographers, from now on, all your shots must be action photos -- of course, you're the one who has to stay in action
...you can't stand waiting for the crosswalk light to change, that would be in violation, even tho you're a pedestrian in the purist form
...if you happen to stop and witness a crime, you're a hypocrite(sp?) because you are apparently committing a crime yourself -- you evil evil incorrageable sad excuse for a human
Apparently this is a result of people complaining about buskers who have made problems, and the City of Seattle is using pedestrian right-of-way under the DOT to make their changes.
We're (my drummer & I) trying to see what's still work'able and go forth. If it seems necessary, there may be some effort to form up local buskers and the folks who enjoy buskers in the greater Seattle area to help work out something best in the interest of all. If you are a busker in the area, please PM me; if you're a busker who was/is also effected by this most recent bogus thing, please PM me. If anyone else has comment with regard to "fighting city hall" when it comes to busking, please post up here.
Well, I guess the Seattle leg of our west-coast tour is over or on hold for the time being.
As of this most recent weekend, it seems that it is possible that there is no longer any busking allowed in the City of Seattle.
My drummer apparently received one of the Seattle "no sitting/laying-down" tickets (more of a panhandler law) this past Friday because he was playing his drum set ... no different or different location that he has for, oh, only the past year. He was also apparently told, just the same as I and other buskers got in/direct wind of on Saturday that in Seattle if you are a street performer you are legally in voilation because you are obstructing the public's use of the sidewalk (which I thought included us???). Apparently, and/or according to the Dept of Transportation & their pamphlet, you are obstructing the sidewalk if you are standing in one place or set anything down on the sidewalk.
So perhaps this means....
...if you are standing, waiting for a bus, you are in violation -- oh, and that heavy backpack or uncomfortable briefcase, yeah, don't set that down, thats in violation -- probably best to form up a walking circle with the other folks waiting for the bus
...if you see an old school chum on the street, go nutz, say hi, stand and chat, maybe a friendly hug, unless you 2 keep walking, you're in violation (maybe if you continue to jump up & down the whole time in excitement, you're OK?)
...if you're a "street performer" you may play, you may received "donations" (not tips, oh no no no), but you cannot put down your case/hat/jar/etc, you must keep moving, and if you are to sell, er, I mean make available in trade for "donation" merchandise such as CDs, I guess they too have to be hanging off of your body
...tourists and other photographers, from now on, all your shots must be action photos -- of course, you're the one who has to stay in action
...you can't stand waiting for the crosswalk light to change, that would be in violation, even tho you're a pedestrian in the purist form
...if you happen to stop and witness a crime, you're a hypocrite(sp?) because you are apparently committing a crime yourself -- you evil evil incorrageable sad excuse for a human
Apparently this is a result of people complaining about buskers who have made problems, and the City of Seattle is using pedestrian right-of-way under the DOT to make their changes.
We're (my drummer & I) trying to see what's still work'able and go forth. If it seems necessary, there may be some effort to form up local buskers and the folks who enjoy buskers in the greater Seattle area to help work out something best in the interest of all. If you are a busker in the area, please PM me; if you're a busker who was/is also effected by this most recent bogus thing, please PM me. If anyone else has comment with regard to "fighting city hall" when it comes to busking, please post up here.
Well, I guess the Seattle leg of our west-coast tour is over or on hold for the time being.
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Re: Busking In Seattle Goes Goodbye?
Tue, January 10, 2006 - 4:15 PM_All Violations Subject to Civil and Criminal Penalties_
Violations of any Street Use requirements, including use of the public right-of-way and street vending, are subject to civil and/or criminal penalties as described in Chapters SMC 15.90 and 15.91. Penalties for use of the public right-of-way include a $500 daily fine, and street vendors are also subject to civil citations of up to $500 per occurrence. Additionally, violators may be prosecuted criminally for these violations, punishable by fines of up to $5000 and one year imprisonment.
The above exerpt is from the City of Seattle DOT "Use of the Public Right-of-Way" phamplet, and is retyped correct to my knowlege; please post here if there is a correction.
I can just see it...
"Hey man, what are you in for?"
"Drunk driving accident where I mamed a person. What are you in for?"
"Criminal bus waiting and street music."
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Re: Busking In Seattle Goes Goodbye?
Tue, January 10, 2006 - 4:52 PM"As of this most recent weekend, it seems that it is possible that there is no longer any busking allowed in the City of Seattle."
Sounds like it's time to start a professional street performer association. (I have the T-shirts already, remember: www.cafepress.com/pspa ). Yes, you may use the logo for starting your own performer association.
Seriously, if you can work with other entertainers to start a professional organization you can have some clout at city hall. Here in SF, a guy who used to hold parties in warehouses was shut down by police. He complained and the cops told him they were just enforcing the laws (noise, after-hours parties, etc). They told him that if he wanted things different, he should go change the laws.
He did. He started the SF Entertainment Commission and took the responsibility for entertainment permits out of the hands of the police department. Here's a link to the SF website that talks about the commission: www.sfgov.org/site/entert...nt_index.asp
Meanwhile, before starting your own entertainment commission, it's good to meet with others who provide entertainment, merchandise, and other benefits along the street and get them organized. Then talk with the people who run the venues in town and see if you can get their support. It may be surprising how many venue owners/managers are in favor of street performers. Many are frustrated performers themselves.
You might also look into other alternatives such as playing in parks where there is no sidewalk to block, playing in venues that have sidewalk access such as sidewalk cafes, etc., so that you're still visible in public, but in some kind of controlled environment where the police can't hassle you.
Good luck.
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Re: Busking In Seattle Goes Goodbye?
Tue, January 10, 2006 - 6:15 PMDavid ~ the consamate man of the hour with the _awesome_ info...
Actually, its kinda odd ... the PSPA logo from the YGroup was going through my head as my drummer was talking with the po-lice this past weekend.
Yeah, great stuff ... I'll bring this up with my drummer, see about talking with this other fellow in SF to get some direction. Thanks!
Anyone else? -
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Re: Busking In Seattle Goes Goodbye?
Wed, January 11, 2006 - 6:13 PMis there a link to this new law in seattle?
david...you gettin any biz from Busker Central? -
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Re: Busking In Seattle Goes Goodbye?
Wed, January 11, 2006 - 6:19 PMNo biz so far. I did sell one shirt, but the order said it was from Romania. Maybe they collect American memorabilia there.
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Re: Busking In Seattle Goes Goodbye?
Mon, January 23, 2006 - 12:42 PMInteresting...
This S.American (Argentinian ?SP?) group that's been playing on the streets in Seattle, in the same Westlake area, with amps/mics/etc for many years are not getting rolled on, apparently, but the Seattle Police Dept.
Political protesters are not getting rolled on by the SPD in the same area.
Panhandlers, sitting on the pavement with blankets & dogs & whatever, are not getting rolled on by the police.
Folks doing little vending (usually w/o the permits you _do_ actually need as I understand for this), setting up "shop" haven't gotten rolled on.
It seems that there is some sort of discrimination going on. It doesn't make sense to me.
We busked around the stadium yesterday w/ the football game, did the $best$ for ourselves since this whole Westlake debackle(sp), and not a problem in that area. It all seems unclear and unballanced to me about busking in Seattle. -
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Re: Busking In Seattle Goes Goodbye?
Mon, January 23, 2006 - 1:48 PMprobably peruvian...
friend bought a tape from a s. american band in switzerland...good tape
bought another one from a different band....same tape
doh! -
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Re: Busking In Seattle Goes Goodbye?
Wed, January 25, 2006 - 8:11 AMdaegan,
I have a thought that may or may not be worthwhile...
I am willing to bet you that the problem you are encountering is from the merchants, not the police. And the police do what the merchants say.... meaning, you need to consider where you are and who you are affecting when you pick your spot - and perhaps get the OK from the merchants.
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Re: Busking In Seattle Goes Goodbye?
Wed, January 25, 2006 - 11:55 AMI agree. Police work has gotten so full of paperwork that most police don't want to bother anybody unless they need to, such as from pressure above or a complaint. I know that vending (selling CDs and such) is a taxable event in Washington. Someone once suggested here that she sold her CDs via a local store in order to avoid needing a seller's permit. Using that idea, it might work to have get the permission of a merchant to play in front of their place in exchange for them selling your CDs.
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Re: Busking In Seattle Goes Goodbye?
Wed, January 25, 2006 - 12:51 PMDirk & David,
Thanks for your responses.
My bandmate/drummer has been fighting this, and so far he's found out that it's the folks who apparently have appartments in & around the area who have complained about the musicians/buskers, and not the merchants.
We've actually thought that the merchants would have complained about us long ago -- I mean, really, a drum kit and Highland bagpipes, that's loud & distinct. We'd think that our sound would head driectly through the front doof or The Gap across the street, but apparently not -- we've even been told by Gap workers that they don't hear us unless they come across the street to listen to us on their breaks (and apparently some do). I've walked around a bit while my drummer's been playing & noticed how the sound echos around the buildings -- and I've found a sweet-spot that seems to bounce off of The Gap and hits the bus stop around the corner on our side of the street ... its weird, but its also cool 'cause then folks coming our way can/are hearing us.
But this is just one merchant -- one example -- and according to what my drummer has found out (I think from the SeattlePD directly -- I'm not sure) that its the residents and not the merchants ... which is also interesting to me as I didn't think there was apts or condos in that area -- just business and offices.
So as to which residents are complaining, what speciffically they're complaining about, which musicians and what those musicians are doing -- all of which, I don't know.
Funky bummer stuff. :( -
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Re: Busking In Seattle Goes Goodbye?
Wed, January 25, 2006 - 1:30 PMWell, perhaps you should take requests? :) -
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Re: Busking In Seattle Goes Goodbye?
Wed, January 25, 2006 - 2:48 PMNaw, those tend to only come from drunk-folks -- and I don't bother with them much. -
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Re: Busking In Seattle Goes Goodbye?
Wed, January 25, 2006 - 6:09 PMAre there circle acts working in the same area, or only musicians?
It's probably civic entitlement through high mortgage rates that are causing the trouble.
SF had a hell of a time keeping the SOMA district nightclubs open as soon as the 'Artist's lofts' went up.
I can only assume music is not their muse... -
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This is the maximum depth. Additional responses will not be threaded.
Re: Busking In Seattle Goes Goodbye?
Wed, January 25, 2006 - 8:20 PMWell, what about a muffler on the pipes perhaps they will not carry as far....??? But not something that would interfere with the tone of course. -
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Re: Busking In Seattle Goes Goodbye?
Thu, January 26, 2006 - 12:45 PMMuffling Highland bagpipes -- good question.
It's been tried, as I understand, and it's not worked -- just screwed up the sound/instrument.
Yeah, sorry, no go ;D
But thanks for the idear.
Different types of pipes -- some of which are the same configuration as Highland pipes (play the same) -- are quieter, however are then too quiet for busking. Dang eh?, no happy medium. -
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Re: Busking In Seattle Goes Goodbye?
Thu, January 26, 2006 - 10:25 PMThere has got to be a solution - you need to be free to express yourself and spread your music and make some bucks along the way. Its probably one cranky man who has a problem. -
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Re: Busking In Seattle Goes Goodbye?
Mon, January 30, 2006 - 12:13 PMYeah, Dirk, I agree -- I/we ought to be able to express ourselvs and make the few bucks, etc. It could be one cranky ol'F'tard, or it could be the po-leece makin' sumthin' up to roll us out or something in place of another reason -- not that the cops _ever_ do that (oh no, never). I think that I ought to not have to muffle my instrument either (tho I understand that you were suggesting that only as a possibility), even if it could, as it is the "natural" function of the instrument as opposed to it being amplified to produce more volume than it's normal state.
I'm just surprised to know that there are residents in the area where we've gotten shut down -- I mean, I know about the folk sleepin' in doorways, but actual condos?, apts?
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This is the maximum depth. Additional responses will not be threaded.
Re: Busking In Seattle Goes Goodbye?
Thu, January 26, 2006 - 12:43 PMI think I know what this is, but just to be sure -- what's a circle act?
When someone takes rope and indicates their stage on the pavement? -
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Re: Busking In Seattle Goes Goodbye?
Fri, January 27, 2006 - 1:34 AM"-- what's a circle act?"
You know...when you're in junior high and you get a bunch of guys together...and...you know...
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Re: Busking In Seattle Goes Goodbye?
Mon, January 30, 2006 - 12:06 PMThat's "jerk", David, not "act". -
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Re: Busking In Seattle Goes Goodbye?
Mon, January 30, 2006 - 12:10 PMohhhhhh....
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Re: Busking In Seattle Goes Goodbye?
Mon, January 30, 2006 - 12:21 PMAhhhhh... -
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Unsu...
Re: Busking In Seattle Goes Goodbye?
Fri, February 10, 2006 - 1:39 PMDeagan:
Time to raise a little hell with Seattle's office of "Music" and film Daegan...
let's start a buskers union - I know Emory would be down with it...other buskers I've talked to over the years have been down with the idea -
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Re: Busking In Seattle Goes Goodbye?
Fri, February 10, 2006 - 3:41 PMJesse & I have thunk'ed a bit along those lines.
Lets get on the horne and chatter about this soon.
I've got your card still, and despite moving somewhat recently, I think I even know where it is. Besides, it'd be good to catch up.
Through this weekend is bad for me -- maybe early next week, eh? -
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Re: Busking In Seattle Goes Goodbye?
Thu, February 8, 2007 - 9:59 PMWOAH! I Just found this stream and read the whole thing. This is Emery, and in Seattle, we do have, the Pike Market Performers Guild which was formed about 6 years ago. I'm serving my third year as its chairman. We've got a lot of work to do, sometimes, life gets a little too hectic just trying to survive, and other important things get pushed back. Anyway. Here's the crazy thing. I used to live in the mysterious apartments at 6th and Pine. They are regular apartments, nothing fancy, between the 3rd and 10th floors across from Nordstrom. I lived on the ninth floor, this was when I first moved to Seattle and right before I started busking. It was actually louder on the ninth floor with the windows closed then it was on the street. The buildings have a way of amplifying the further up you go. One might love a paticular kind or style of music or even love and appreciate the art, although when subjected to a repetitive sound (i.e. an one hour set repeated 4 or 5 times in one day, every day for a year), it's enough to drive anyone a little insane, even if they love you. I remember there being literally no escape from the sound other than headphones, in my own home. Needless to say I moved, became a busker, and that experience has enabled me to be a little more concious of my sound and it's effects. Oh man, I'm really excited to see what we can do this year. I actually got a little depressed and checked out for awhile, but I'm back and ready for some serious action. I love you all. It's so good to discover like minded, inspired, motivated, artistic, twisted yet righteous souls. I love you. Seriously, I love you all. -
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Re: Busking In Seattle Goes Goodbye?
Wed, February 14, 2007 - 9:11 PMI don't know how many other people are still here, but I'm here. Interesting comments on the noise problem in the building. Sometimes we don't realize how far sound can carry.
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Re: Busking In Seattle Goes Goodbye?
Thu, February 15, 2007 - 2:03 PMHey,
we are always in a state of flux here in SF, and this sound thing is always the biggest problem.
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Re: Busking In Seattle Goes Goodbye?
Wed, April 8, 2009 - 9:48 AMDaegan- what's a circle act?
Gathering a full circle of people for a single show.
as opposed to a grind act that relies on walk by traffic,
like a living statue.
Some use rope, some chalk, sometimes you can keep a circle without delineation.
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Re: Busking In Seattle Goes Goodbye?
Mon, May 18, 2009 - 11:29 AMYou should appeal on the grounds of subjective enforcement. If there's sufficient clearance around (I take it you're talking about the sick street drummer near the convention center?), there's no reason to get a ticket and you're just getting harrassed. The higher up you go in the courts, the more likely it is that a conscientious judge will throw this ticket out, and there's no reason s/he wouldn't continue to do so if an obnoxious officer has nothing better to do than give repeated sitting/lying tickets to street performers.
I feel 100% that you can find a lawyer in Seattle who'll represent you for cheap or free on this one.